07 Jun 2012 21:29:35
Celtic fan here, there have been alot of talk of Celtic signing Leon Best havent seen much of him.
What type of player is he?
67coatbridge
Good striker but couldnt really get a game a newcastle with cisse and ba
Average striker with a decent first touch but not blessed with great pace. Will score occasional goals but will never be a consistent scorer. Works hard and would probably do well in Scotland. Unfortunately not Premier league standard.
Had a great bank holiday BUT just heard the ash is here 4 the long haul gutted
Leon Best is mint works his socks off, great in the air and very under-rated at Newcastle.
Works as hard as any striker there is.
Pure ignorance. Ashley is the best thing could ever have happened. I hope he's here a long time. Club's never been run better.
Ashamedly, I used to tell anyone who would listen how badly Ashley was running this club, but wise, Jimenez et al have gone, Ashley has steadied the ship, drawn up a (great) buisness plan, and is running the club how ALL clubs should be ran. With a few mistakes here and there (SD Arena etc) he's done brilliantly over the past season, and long may it continue.
Incredibly underrated striker, works so so hard, great ability in the air. I think he's prem quality but maybe just not Newcastle quality with Ba and Cisse. Mind you, he was scoring every game at the start of the season before Ba found some prolific form.
Great ability in the air? That's well over the top I'm afraid. He is decent in the air, decent at scoring goals and ... a decent striker (if that's what you're looking for).
If you're looking for class however - forget it - that he ain't.
Looking for class forget him??? This is the SPL you are talking about mate. Lets put it this way, he will score double what Hooper got you last season,he is about 3 levels higher than him.
He is about 3 levels higher than Hooper - really?
Decent championship striker
Yeh sure he is, his scoring record is rubbish compared to Hooper even before he came to Celtic
Guys I must be watching a different player than alot of you the few yrs. Leon Best is a Championship striker, yes he scored a few goals last season but so does every striker. I will never doubt his work rate but the man needs to move on if we want to push for CL. Celtic would be ideal for him and Hooper is a better finisher than best anyday so we will take him the other way.
Hooper has only done it in the championship and lower, including the SPL. How anyone can rate a footballer by the SPL is beyond me. Remember Boumsong,Roy Aitken,John Robertson, Kris Boyd, Scott McDonald,Kevin Thomson and thats only the North east flops. And why do all the below average English league players go up to Scotland? Not rocket science is it? If Hooper was any good he would be playing in English Premier league and hopefully someone will take a chance on him, Wigan,West Brom,Norwich or someone and then we will see his limited ability.
The ignorance of EPL supporters is becoming laughable. 95% of players go to England for money, they couldn't care how good the league is. Hooper could easily do a job in the EPL and the percentage of players who come down from the SPL and do well is a lot higher than all the so called big name players who go up to the SPL and do well
It's simple:
Best - Celtic can have him
Hooper - we don't want him.
Neither are quality strikers.
Jelavic...
Pointless discussion - there is no way to compare Best and Hooper. They are very different in style and they don't play in the same league.
SPL is nowhere near the standard of the EPL but Hooper looks a decent natural goalscorer and I think he'll do ok in any league if he gets good service.
DomW
This just shows how wrong football is at the moment especially the spl.You have Celtic a far far bigger club than Newcastle and they are having to buys epl cast offs.Also dont dare say they are not or you will be made to look foolish.
If you're talking about history, then Celtic are a massive club. If we're talking about the future then they will struggle to be bigger than Reading.
Sorry but Scottish football is basically bankrupt and its a massive shame but I think the recent crisis at Rangers highlights that the whole SPL is a house of cards.
DomW. {Ed007's Note - Reading will NEVER be a bigger club than Celtic, and if Rangers come out their current problems, Reading will NEVER be a bigger club than them. My God some of you fans of English teams are just so deluded especially when the SLY EPL money kicks in. Give either Glasgow team that kind of money and Reading would be the equivalent of a Dundee Utd. Celtic and Rangers are two of the largest clubs in the entire world, Reading aren't even in the top five clubs in London!!}
Celtic are gigantic worldwide as are Rangers but Celtic are equal to Man utd,Barca,Real as they have supporters clubs in nearly every country in the world.
Celtic and Rangers would dominate English football if they were to ever join the English league what is a possibility some day.
I know celtic and rangers are based in glasgow... but i didnt know reading were in london, looks like celtic and rangers are the bigger teams (plus when was the last time you saw reading in europe)
Maybe because Reading isn't in London.
Sorry but thats a lot of ifs and buts. IF Celtic and Rangers had EPL type of money and IF they joined the English league, they may well go on to be major forces (although geography is a little against them). BUT they haven't got ANY money and there is currently no sign that they will ever join the EPL or generate that kind of money.
Right now, Celtic and Rangers are operating at the financial level of a club in the upper reaches of the English Championship - one that doesn't have the parachute payments.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Scottish football and I honestly wish it were different. Unless something drastic happens though, its dying on its arse. ED07 - you can rant about delusional English fans all you like but the fact remains Rangers and Celtic are losing the battle to remain serious forces. A solid history means it can be turned around but there are no signs of this at the moment.
Regarding Reading...I could have chosen any club in the top of the Championship really. They may never get to Europe but then they also have an awful lot more competition to get there. I'm sure they'd have a fighting chance if all they were in a league with Motherwell, Ross County, St Mirren etc. and only one other big club to worry about.
DomW {Ed007's Note - Is that Motherwell that are in the CL qualifiers, when did Reading last play ANY match in Europe? Two Scottish teams in the UEFA Cup final in the last 10 years....How many Championship teams or lower EPL teams get 50-60,000 fans at every home game (every match that is, how many fans will go and watch Reading this season then not go back if they are relegated?). Does Reading have supporters clubs in every corner of the globe, is invited all over the world to play friendly matches. The play off system is a perfect example of glory hunting, money grabbing football. Blackpool and West Ham can nearly fill Wembley for a play off final, where are all those fans for the rest of the season? The parachute payments sums it up perfectly, they are encouraging teams to live out with their means and pay them off to keep quiet when it goes badly wrong and they are relegated and see the false economy they have used. Remember Leeds...or are Reading a bigger club than them as well now? The only thing the EPL has to offer is money, and that is only from TV, Celtic have two billionaires on the board of directors and is a well ran business model. Reading will never be regarded as a big club. So while the English game bends over to whore itself out the only difference is TV money, but eventually that money will dry up as the old prostitute loses her looks and the punters dry up. I can't wait to watch Reading v Stoke on Monday Night Football in December, it doesn't get much more glitzy than that does it? *rolls eyes*}
Once again we decend into the "my team is a big club because they get high gate numbers and won things 30 years ago" - believe me, as a Newcastle fan I'm used to being on both sides of that argument :-).
But you miss my point - this isn't about being a "big club" in that intangible, unmeasurable sense. This is about financial clout. Being a "big club" doesn't seem to be paying the bills for Rangers does it?
It really doesn't matter whether you agree with it or consider it as "whoring", in the end, the situation exists and neither of us can change it. I'd say, if you can't beat em, join em. And if Celtic and Rangers wish to continue to compete at a high level, they will have to embrace this inevitability or they will fade away.
Do I mean the same Motherwell who are in the CL? Yes - the Motherwell who are in the 3rd Qualifying round of the CL and who are there for legal reasons despite finishing 11 points behind Rangers (even after their 10 point deduction). If that doesn't illustrate my point about the strength of the SPL after Celtic and Rangers, then I don't know what does. Maybe the fact that the SPL is ranked in 15th place - just a little above the national leagues of Romania and Israel - should do it.
If your measure of club size is CL qualification then I guess Shamrock Rovers are a massive club...
Am I excited by Reading v Stoke next year? Nope but I bet Reading fans are. I bet none of them are particularly excited by the prospect of watching Celtic v Rangers play each other 4, 5 or 6 times next year either...
I agree with you on one point: eventually the money will dry up and the fall out will be horrible for the clubs that are in debt (the ITV digital debacle is a perfect example) but until that happens, Celtic will struggle to attract players - we both know (horrible though it is) that most players would choose to play for Stoke ahead of Celtic because of the wages and the profile that the EPL brings.
Lets hope that the financial fair play rules help to even things out a bit but I have my doubts about that.
Summing up...are Celtic and Rangers FAMOUS clubs? Of course they are and fair play to them. But are they big players in world football at the moment? Not really.
DomW. {Ed007's Note - Celtic have the 10th highest matchday revenue in Europe, ahead of the likes of Man City and both both Milan clubs. There is not even £1 million between Celtic in 10th and Spurs in 9th.}
Must admit, reading this i initially thought that dom must be off his rocker and i was on the side of ed, but i was convinced and understand what he was getting at, its not the fact that one team is better/bigger/more accomplished, its the vast difference between the leagues thats the problem, put it this way, if swansea were still playing in the welsh league (i dont even know if they ever did) they would not generate alot of money, dispite winning everything, similar situation to that of rangers no? But the fact remains they arein the EPL and therefore do generate a fair amount of money and will (i hope) cope as a premiership team because of it, also i personally believe you cannot compare teams from different leagues as you will not truly know the outcome, for there are too many variables, as the english game is the harder (maybe even hardest) league to play in due to the speed and quite simply tactics are far more advanced in the EPL than the SPL, and if you disagree then you are deluded
MegaTOON {Ed007's Note - Anyone who thinks Reading will EVER be as big a club as Celtic or Rangers is deluded. Nothing to do with, leagues, money or anything. Any Newcastle fan I have met would follow their team through thick and thin, well fans of the Glasgow teams are exactly the same. There are few teams in England that can compete with them when it comes to dedicated fan bases. I have never met a Reading fan, they seem to be more people's 'second' team, maybe Chelsea fans that have a soft spot for them because they live near the ground. I am like that with Hamilton Accies.}
The only thing stoppimg celtic and rangers from being very good teamsis the league that they play in. They are both massive clubs but not that attractable as they play in the spl. Apart from celtic and rangets the spl is low championship standard going down to low league 1 standard. If the quality of yhe teams was better overall then they ould have more money a they would have better players as the leaugue would be better, more prize money from winning the league as it would be more competitive, etc. If they played in the premier leaugue they would bbe in the top 5 probbly challengjng for the title. Its just the standard of tye spl that stops them.
Celtic are a bigger club then us, but we have much better players
This has got nothing to do with history or number of fans through the gates on a Saturday.
Matchday income is approx 1/3 of the picture for EPL and other top league teams. Its the lack of commercial income and broadcasting revenue that puts Celtic and Rangers in amongst football's paupers.
Real Madrid revenue = 433m
Spurs Revenue = 163m
Newcastle = 91m
Celtic = ~61m (that was from 2009/2010 and the only data for Celtic I could find but ominously it was 13m down from 2009).
Overall revenue for the top 20 European clubs from 2011/12 in detail is below and Celtic are nowhere near Tottenham. No idea what Reading's revenue was but I'll lay odds that its comparable with Celtic next season.
The Deloitte Football Money League – 2010/11 revenue
Position (prior year position) Club 2010/11 Revenue (£m)
1 (1) Real Madrid 433
2 (2) FC Barcelona 407
3 (3) Manchester United 331
4 (4) Bayern Munich 290.3
5 (5) Arsenal 226.8
6 (6) Chelsea 225.6
7 (7) AC Milan 212.3
8 (9) Internazionale 190.9
9 (8) Liverpool 183.6
10 (16) Schalke 04 182.8
11 (12) Tottenham Hotspur 163.5
12 (11) Manchester City 153.2
13 (10) Juventus 139
14 (15) Olympique de Marseille 135.8
15 (18) AS Roma 129.6
16 (n/a) Borussia Dortmund 125.1
17 (14) Olympique Lyonnais 119.9
18 (13) Hamburger SV 116.3
19 (n/a) Valencia 105.5
20 (n/a) Napoli 103.8
Source: Deloitte Football Money League 2012
DomW {Ed007's Note - I take it you missed where I said MATCHDAY REVENUE. That shows what the bigger clubs are when you take away TV money etc, it means what fans actually put into the club on matchdays throughout the season, and remember that tickets for Celtic are not as expensive as your Chelsea's etc.}
Sigh...last try to be understood, then bed.
I didn't miss that you said MATCHDAY, I just said that its largely irrelevant. You cannot discount commercial and TV income just because it makes Celtic look bigger that way. The financial might of a club is a combination of all incomes. That income is larger for clubs that have a bigger brand presence and play in a more popular league. The Scottish league is weak and virtually unmarketable outside of Scotland - hence the low income. You compared Celtic to Spurs but their matchday revenue is similar to Celtic's but less than one third of their total income. Sadly for Celtic, its the majority.
As a result, Celtic's income is comparable with a Championship / lower EPL club, thats all I'm saying.
Celtic have a SMALL income in comparison to teams in the top European Leagues. In terms of buying power and influence, they are therefore a SMALL club in today's football.
If Celtic and Rangers are so big and powerful, tell me when you think a Scottish team will win something outside of Scotland again. I'm not holding my breath.
Night night. Shame we couldn't have had this debate in the pub over a few jars - would have been fun.
DomW. {Ed007's Note - It would have been a do enjoy a nice 'Newky' lol All I have been saying and trying to prove is that Reading will never be anywhere near as 'big' a club as either Glasgow team (without going into the Rangers situation PLEASE!!!! lol). The EPL is not the be all and end all of football. As for Celtic being unmarketable outside of the Scotland/SPL, we are playing Real Madrid in Philadelphia in the summer, then Ajax in Amsterdam, they toured Australia last summer. The Celtic and Rangers brand presence is worldwide, is Reading's? How many players in England have asked CFC down for testimonials, this all stems from how 'big' the club's name is worldwide, to compare the 'size' of the club with Reading or any other Championship club and a good few PL clubs is laughable. Money doesn't make you a 'big' club, it might bring short term success but surely you as a Newcastle fan understands the difference and the point I am trying to make? Would you rather have a club ran like Man City/Chelsea? My argument was not based solely on finances, it is about the perception and acceptance of being a recognised 'big' club, there is not many that can reach the levels of CFC or Rangers even taking into account their limited finances. If you need a parachute payment to survive relegation then your club is living outside it's means, there is no getting away from that. And the matchday revenues are important if you are gauging the size of a club, for a 'wee' team like CFC, in a very poor league, to make that list is commendable and shows the level of loyalty the fans show to make it a 'big' club. If and it is a huge IF Celtic and Rangers got into the English set up, how much of an attraction would they be to players from all over the world, mix the EPL money in with those brands and it would be a worry to the EPL mafia, just hypothetically speaking of course......}
Wow all this from is leon best any good, i love it how football takes conversations completely away from the original point.