Newcastle Banter Archive August 07 2014

07 Aug 2014 19:07:50
In my view, its time we let go of Collo and give Mbiwa and may be De Vrij (if we can get him, and he's good in the air) or any other good CB a chance, with our new offense I believe we can punch a hole in any defence but not until we plug our holes in defence. Collo isn't the player he was a few seasons ago, and I believe Siem De Jong has all the attributes to become our captain.
These are my views.

De Vrij has gone to lazio.

As for collo, he's a leader and one of our most experienced players at the club, we have quite a young squad and we need leaders of men like coloccini, I still think he's a very solid and composed centre half despite losing a few yards of pace

Collo best defender we got it's not his fault the garbage he's been put with he needs someone solid with him at times he's out of position because he's trying to do the other defenders job

I'm with you itoon, de jong does look a champion. Collo hasn't been leading since he wanted to move back to Argentina. I don't think he wants the hassle of the job. Watching de jong play I get the feeling that he would thrive on the role, I also think he is the type of player we all love at St James Park. His character and passion reminds me of Rob Lee. I think he would revell in 50,000 fans singing his name. I get the feeling he would lead by example but also make sure his team went out every week to do their best for the fans. I think this attitude has been gradually missing from our team since we lost guys like solano, gary speed, rob lee. It went completely when souness took over. Kevin Nolan brought it back for a little while and it was a shame we sold him.

Do agree that siem would be a fantastic captain but I wouldn't rite Collo of yet he will come good as long as someone decent along side him

07 Aug 2014 15:38:52
I think people are maybe going a bit too far on judging our defence. IMO the weak link in our defence last season, was Santon. He's not a left back, he's so predictable, he's either a right back or right winger. He got exploited so many times.

As for Saylor, I think he's a hot and cold player, he will have solid games where he is playing alongside collo, and he's willing to put his body on the line, and he'll have bad days where he'll be so clumsy, like bringing players down needlessly or stepping up the defensive line too late.

This is a solid back 4:
Janmaat - M'Biwa - Coloccini - Haidara

As i've said many times, the defence gets way too overworked and as a result to why we concede so many. It gets overworked as spire pointed out, we have poor ball retention.
We have two engines in Sissoko and Colback
An anchor in Tiote, and i'm not really sure what type of players Abeid and Bigirimana are. As for Anita, he's too lightweight to be a defensive midfielder, would rather see him as backup for janmaat.
A deep lying playmaker in Clement Grenier and a goalscorer in either Connor Wickham or Alexandre Lacazette would see us have a good spine/backbone in the team.

JT I think MYM and Collo are too similar to play together and neither is that good in the air. There is not much to choose beween Dummet and Haidara but I think Dummet has the edge defensively.

Toony not far away BUT even this defense is nowhere near good A quality CB to play with Coll and Mwb to be ready to step in if any injuries BUT you an I both know Williamson will start with Coll

The only solid player in that back four is Janmaat!
Yanga-M'biwa occasionally looks like the talented CB we thought we were buying but most of the time he plays more like Bramble.
Colo no longer looks like the brilliant CB he's been for us he gets caught out of position when he fails to read the play and tries to run out and nick the ball off the opponent too much now.
Haidara is exciting because of his pace and his ability to carry the ball out of defence but there's nothing solid about the defensive side of his game he gives silly free kicks away in dangerous areas, gets caught out of position a lot and doesn't do enough to stop crosses coming in from the left.

Janmaat-Willo-Manga-Santon

That what my defence would be if I got my way Santon is the weak link in that defence I know. I'd sell Santon and one of Haidara or Dummett and sign a competent defender but it won't happen and between the three of them Santon is the more complete LB.

Noone can deny that Willo was our best defender last season and is really the only one who has been consistent the last 2 seasons. He is the only one who talks and actually keeps a line and uses his head. i'm by no way saying he amazing but I think we need a new CB to play alongside him, and actually think Collo is close to loosing his place if a first class CB is brought in.

Danie no one is saying he was not BUT he was part of almost the most dismal defense in the Premiership and something needs doing about it before it is too late because it will happen again this season.

07 Aug 2014 10:00:15
Apologies, I did not see HBA had number 26.
I'm still right about him though.

07 Aug 2014 09:03:35
Talking of CB's, is Michael dawson worth going for, 5m is decent business IMO.

No he is not, no improvement. Barcelona play Mascherano at CB FFS but it does not matter as they retain possession thus limiting opportunities for the opposition. I am not saying we are anywhere near Barcelona but until we sign a replacement for Cabaye who can control midfield and ensure we keep possession it will not matter who we play at CB. If the oppo do not have the ball they cannot score, if we have it we can. simples.

I don't understand your post spiretoon. Barcelona? Mascherano? Cabaye? No team keeps possession for a whole game and we can't defend from set pieces or open play. Fair do's if you don't think Dawson is an improvement on what we have. I don't think us losing possession in midfield is a strong enough excuse for the dire defensive showings last season and pre season.

Me either Deseree prrhaps the Raki was put early today

Raki?

My point is that we could have Hummels and Boateng at CB and it would make no difference as we do not keep the ball for long enough and the defence is having to defend so much that eventually mistakes will happen and goals will be conceded. We have not replaced Cabaye in that none of our central midfielders are good at passing, keeping possession or passing forward on the deck to a forward player. I used Barcelona as an example of how a poor back 4 does not unduly hinder the team because they dominate possession so the back 4 comes under little or no pressure.

Spire is spot on actually, we could have the best centre backs in the world but we'd still just be as bad, the defence gets way to overworked, the midfield has been split open so easily in the last two years, we've seen it so many times even when we are winning.

It has been Cabaye who has kept our fluidity, we relied on him so much, but when we had both him and Remy in the team, we looked very good.

We know that under Pardew we can do well when we have a spin in the team, a solid centre half, a playmaker and a goalscorer.

11/12 (6 game winning run)
Krul
Simpson Willo Collo Santon
Jonas Tiote
Ben Arfa Cabaye Ba
Cisse

13/14 (4 game winning run)
Krul
Debuchy Willo M'Biwa/Collo Santon
Sissoko Cabaye Tiote Gouffran
Remy Ameobi

I understand spires rationale, I still don't think it is an excuse. If what spire is saying is true then how come we were awful the previous season and almost got relegated. Additionally last season cabaye was playing in the no10 role and not as a midfield playmaker as in 2011/12.
I Ask this question, would any of the top 8 teams of last season want to trade their first choice defence for ours?

Spiretoon and Jtoon - the dreamteam!
Here is a question lads, If cabaye didn't play for france in the world cup would you expect them to lose heavily against lower ranked competition?
Whilst to a degree I can understand that we would miss cabayes passing, How can that explain drubbing by Sunderland, Southampton, man utd,. The performances were anything but professional.
It is highly unlikely that we will find another player like Cabaye. Frankly if our game plan is dependent solely on one player then it is a high stakes game. We have to build a solid foundation at the back whilst working on keeping possession.

07 Aug 2014 07:47:26
Further to my defence of Tayls why is he being blamed for the goals conceded recently?
Against Malaga one was a magic strike and the other two cam from an unmarked player on our RB side where MYM was supposed to be playing, and by the way what an effort he made to block the second one. NOT.
Against Shalke it was MYM again who left his man and against Huddersfield he was not on the pitch for the first one.
The problem is a lack of ball retention in midfield as we have not replaced Cabaye and also a lack of determination to stop crosses and block shots highlighted by the way Willo and Colback just stood off the man who was a foot away for the first goal at Huddersfield.

If we keep th eball better then there is less pressure on the defence and more chance of scoring so it would not matter if we signed Matts Hummels and Jerome Boateng we would still be conceding loads. Instead of spending £8m on a new Dutch CB who made his reputation in the Scottish pub league we should be putting that money towards a creative midfielder to replace Cabaye so we can keep the ball.

Well here's hoping that those pre season performances weren't their 100% effort.

Taylor drops deeper than every other defender which gives him a chance of making one of his spectacular looking blocks and the fans get excited by this and think it makes him a top defender but often this is reason we concede when he's in the team he ends up playing players onside who then go on to score.
Whether we keep possession well or not a poor defence is a poor defence and will always be found out.

It will be found out less the less the opposition have the ball, quite simple really.

07 Aug 2014 07:34:57
There is a lot of slagging off of Tayls on here which I find very short sighted and fickle. The season we finished 5th we were brilliant at he back with Simpson at RB and Raylor at LB and it was Collo and Tayls that held us together and when Tayls picked up the bad injury against Chelsea that is when we started to concede. Until now he has not been properly fit since then so I think he could get back to his best or is it yet another case of a talented player being ruined by Pardew and his coaching staff, you have to admit the list is endless. In fact as pleased as I am with all these signings I think that as long as Pards is manager it will make no difference as he ruins both good young talent and established talented players.
So hopefully Tayls can get back the form he is capable of now he is fit again otherwise he will be sold and then just flourish elsewhere just like Marveaux and HBA will.

Debuchy, ba and Cabaye flourished under pardew, as did cisse for a while.
Collo has played his best football under pardew also. I personally don't rate him as a manager. Wenger looked at cisse, ben arfa, lacazette, riviere, debuchy and yet signed none of them. If Wenger doesn't think they have what it takes I don't think it is fair to blame Pardew. As great a job as grahan carr does I think he over estimates Pardews ability to develop players and therefore buying potential is a flawed policy of the club.

All our cb's get slated on this forum and Steve Taylor probably stands out because of the personic decisions that cost us games. He is a liability

I'm by no means a fan of Pardew and won't be sad when he leaves but to blame him for Taylor's decline is ridiculous. If I remember correctly one of the first things Pardew done when he arrived was to get Taylor a new contract and then he kept Taylor in the team when we were on our unbeaten run and then Taylor got injured as usual but then you say Taylor hasn't been fully fit since then which would be another reason to get rid of him.
Players have an individual responsibility to get themselves fit as possible on top of the team training I bet Cristiano Ronaldo spends hours working out at home and outside of Madrid training which probably helps him stay clear of injuries during the season for the most part do you really think Taylor does the same? I don't.

SC7 that has actually been pinpointed as a reason FOR his injury record in that he does too much gym work and therefore he is too muscly putting extra stress on his joints/hamstrings/groin etc.

I describe myself as muscley, my wife thinks I'm tubby.